NWChem long no longer in beta soon

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damotbe
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Message 649 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 15:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 645.  

Hello,

Please look my host 956, i7-2600K-Virtualisation Bios enable-Win7Ult x64.
All the WU ends in error : VM requires acceleration but the config can not support it !!!
Host details "Virtualbox installed.......... but disabled " !!!.
Can someone tell me, where inside Windows7 we can enable/disable virtualization ?


OK so far, but please look host 1764 : it is a virtual machine mounted on host 956, running Linux on one core, 10Gb virtualdisk.
I repeat, on host 956, with the VB given by Boinc
And it works ! Look WU 859617 or 855793 who ran successfully.

Strange on a computer with virtual "disabled"

It only seems that there are problems with the WU under Win.

The only solution : install virtual machine !


you're jumping too quickly to the conclusion that suits you.
Our Windows WU's require acceleration for obvious performance reasons, but it is possible to install a Linux VM without acceleration and get linux WU's . In this case, the efficiency is likely to be quite bad. In any case, it's not a diagnosis of a problem with our Windows WU, it's expected.

So, it's not the WUs that have a problem, but the configuration of your machine (hardware and software versions) that doesn't work properly with the tools provided by BOINC developpers. And yes, you're not the only one with this problem, and I'm sorry for that. I specify again that I did not modify the virtualbox wrapper provided by Berkeley. Probably, that the most stable projects have invested time to modify the official version, but I'm alone and I don't have that time. Our application is developed for Linux. The Windows and Mac applications we provide are a bonus. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sorry.
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Serg

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Message 651 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 16:31:57 UTC - in response to Message 645.  

Please see your BIOS setting "Execute Disable Bit (XD)", try switch it to "disabled" or see more here
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Zalster

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Message 652 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 16:45:58 UTC - in response to Message 646.  

NWChem long queue is empty, no units to download.

Is it planned to add more wus?

Thanks!


Hmm.. loved me those long work units...hahaha... Great to see those running on my computer. Some using 8 cores per work unit. Was nice to see that. Look forward to any new ones when they come out. Meanwhile, back to the short work units....Crunch crunch crunch........


Z
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Serg

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Message 653 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 17:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 645.  


Please look my host 956, i7-2600K-Virtualisation Bios enable-Win7Ult x64.
All the WU ends in error : VM requires acceleration but the config can not support it !!!
Host details "Virtualbox installed.......... but disabled " !!!.
Can someone tell me, where inside Windows7 we can enable/disable virtualization ?

Virtualization is enabled but not available. Intel has included this limitation for the K-series processors to motivate people buy Xeons.

OK so far, but please look host 1764 : it is a virtual machine mounted on host 956, running Linux on one core, 10Gb virtualdisk.
I repeat, on host 956, with the VB given by Boinc
And it works ! Look WU 859617 or 855793 who ran successfully.

On the virtualized guest machine you have virtualized BIOS, not the same as the host machine's BIOS.
So, see the BIOS setting i posted before.
P.S. your computers are hidden
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swiftmallard
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Message 655 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 19:55:14 UTC - in response to Message 652.  

My little Windows machine happily crunches the short units without any issues we haven't discussed many times before. I was hoping the long ones might boost my RAC a little but they don't so I am happy taking whatever I get.
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marsinph

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Message 656 - Posted: 3 Mar 2020, 20:58:53 UTC - in response to Message 649.  

Hello Damotbe,

OK . Boinc is also wrong . It is what you wrote ! Nice !!! I suggest you to contact Pr ANDERSON David. (See on SETI, the founder of BOINC, past century)
All virtualisation work perfect onh all othe Boinc project.? But Berkeley is false, I am false, everyone is false. Only you are right.
Then if Windows WU are "bonus", ok so far, It is your full right. Wanless also runs only under Linux.

I think , you have never look my returned WU. Too easy for you to say " is not me , but your config".
The returned WU by host 1764 (full manually real virtual machine) on host 956, have all capacities.
So my config hardware is full correct. I repeat once again. It is the same PHYSICAL computer.
Running basically Win7-Ultimate-x64 see description.

Then, what you write about Linux "able" without acceleration, once again ???
Look real host and the sub host(virtual host) .
Look the 13 WU (the latest on host 956, all returned on 03/03/20 on 20:10UTC ) Win7
Look WU 1077208, 1621082, and the others returned at same time.
I repeat once again same host, hardware, as 1764. I7-2600K
And look WU 1712747, 12748 (validated) and 1712792, 1712970 (waiting)
I8t is the same physical computer. same processor, same Bios, same RAM, same HDD, same...
Under Win7 your WU are not suitable. Not my host. Your WU.

Instead of pblishing that your PRJ will not more long will be in beta phase, correct the problems.
Or remove all your Windows.
I have an other host (957) , also a i7-2600K. Perfect the same configuration as host (956) .
Only GPU is not the same. The host 957 worked fine till 25 feb !
And also host 1174 (i7-3820K), same config Win7 as all others

Look the WU. Take time, please.
All report "virtualisation not capable". Nice, But it works on all other projects.

So suddenly, all the windows config became wrong ??? All around the world !!!
It is why i take the conclusion the problem is on your WU, not Boinc, not all the Windows World"
I have a other host with a Ryzen7-3900X with 32Gb (Win10), later I will test your WU.
I hope your wu will not report the same error "no virtualisation"

By the way you not answer about the question "how to enable" virtualisation on Win7.

Not forget, once again it works on all other PRJ.
But you say it is the fault ofr BOINC and the users who are unablme to configure correctly computer !
We are all unable to handle and manage Windows.

I am not the most capable, very far. But on Boinc from the first hours (past century) Look my ID on Boinc, look "the team" I am founder. 111th since creation
ofr BOINC.I think I have enough knownledge to configure hosts . My best was to install à 6Gb HDD on a computer x86 under Vista.
Now it turn (same host AMD 6300+ (dualcore) , 2Gb DDR2 (yes DDR twoo), with à RAID5 of four times two trra SSD !!! Impossible under 32 bits system !?
OK, I know it is possible.
This, to show Damotbe, that the problem is on your Windows WU. Not at our side. And not on BOINC


Un peu d humlilité, n a jamais tué aucun Français !!!





Hello,

Please look my host 956, i7-2600K-Virtualisation Bios enable-Win7Ult x64.
All the WU ends in error : VM requires acceleration but the config can not support it !!!
Host details "Virtualbox installed.......... but disabled " !!!.
Can someone tell me, where inside Windows7 we can enable/disable virtualization ?


OK so far, but please look host 1764 : it is a virtual machine mounted on host 956, running Linux on one core, 10Gb virtualdisk.
I repeat, on host 956, with the VB given by Boinc
And it works ! Look WU 859617 or 855793 who ran successfully.

Strange on a computer with virtual "disabled"

It only seems that there are problems with the WU under Win.

The only solution : install virtual machine !


you're jumping too quickly to the conclusion that suits you.
Our Windows WU's require acceleration for obvious performance reasons, but it is possible to install a Linux VM without acceleration and get linux WU's . In this case, the efficiency is likely to be quite bad. In any case, it's not a diagnosis of a problem with our Windows WU, it's expected.

So, it's not the WUs that have a problem, but the configuration of your machine (hardware and software versions) that doesn't work properly with the tools provided by BOINC developpers. And yes, you're not the only one with this problem, and I'm sorry for that. I specify again that I did not modify the virtualbox wrapper provided by Berkeley. Probably, that the most stable projects have invested time to modify the official version, but I'm alone and I don't have that time. Our application is developed for Linux. The Windows and Mac applications we provide are a bonus. If that doesn't work for you, I'm sorry.
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damotbe
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Message 657 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 12:09:57 UTC - in response to Message 656.  
Last modified: 4 Mar 2020, 12:26:36 UTC

Sorry, my interlocutor does not seem to understand the details of what I am explaining in English. I will answer in French.

Cher Marsinph,

Je suis enseignant-chercheur et actuellement la seule personne à m'occuper du serveur Quchempedia. L'Université française et particulièrement les petites universités ont de très grosses charges de travail. Personnellement, je suis entre 150% et 180% de charge de travail juste pour la partie enseignement. Un très bon stagiaire a développé la première version de Quchempedia@home et j'ai du faire face à de nombreux problèmes après son départ, notamment pour stabiliser la version Linux qui est aussi utilisée dans les VM. Avec le peu de temps qui me reste, j'essaye de mener des recherches, ce qui ne consiste pas à faire tourner et administrer un serveur BOINC qui n'est qu'une très faible partie de mon activité.

Un peu d humlilité, n a jamais tué aucun Français !!!


La méthode scientifique ne s'encombre pas de ses considérations ! Il y a des faits et des hypothèses compatibles ou incompatibles avec ces faits, point. Ton hypothèse est incompatible avec les faits.
L'humilité, mon égo, ton égo n'a rien à voir la dedans. C'est un problème de ta méthode d'investigation : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biais_de_confirmation . Les chercheurs ont l'habitude que leur travail soit critiqué, c'est même un point important de la méthode.

Donc voici l'ensemble de faits dont j'ai la connaissance afin de réfuter ou non des hypothèses :

    - Il y a de nombreux hôtes pour lesquels les WU Windows fonctionnement très bien.
    - j'ai déjà observé tes WU ce qui m'a permis de voir que :
      - ta machine physique n'accepte pas les WU pour un problème d'accélération de la virtualisation
      - ta machine virtuelle installée à la main et qui ne recquiert pas l'accélération de la virtualisation, accepte les WU Linux

    - j'ai depuis longtemps observé les WU d'autres utilisateurs avec des configurations similaires (Intel K-series) et tu n'es pas le seul avec ce problème
    - j'ai cherché et testé des versions alternatives du wrapper Vbox, ces versions ont posé de nombreux autres problèmes
    - j'ai installé chez moi un Windows 7 sur un Intel K-series plus récent que le tien (je n'ai que ça sous la main) et ça fonctionne très bien. Sur la même machine Windows 7, j'ai installé à la main une VM LinuxMint et ça fonctionne aussi très bien.
    - j'ai eu de nombreux problèmes avec les codes officielles de BOINC, notamment avec le wrapper Linux et j'ai contourné ces problèmes. Il y a bien des limites dans les codes officiels et je t'invite à essayer de faire tourner un serveur BOINC pour t'en rendre compte. Ce qui n'enlève pas que leur travail est extraordinaire et que je suis admiratif de ce qu'ils ont réussi à faire depuis SETI.
    - Je connais le cycle de vie de mes WU et je suis donc capable en regardant les erreurs de savoir si un problème vient de mon code ou d'un code existant dans le projet BOINC (wrapper par exemple) ou d'un problème de configuration.
    - des personnes avec le même problème ont installé une VM à la main et ont aussi réglé le problème (comme toi), d'autres ont trouvé un moyen de bien configurer leur machine (autres modèles CPU).



Je te laisse choisir entre les deux hypothèses, laquelle et la plus probable:

    1/ Les WU Windows de quchempedia@home ont un problème
    2/ Ta configuration (notamment ton modèle de CPU) pose problème au wrapper officiel vbox BOINC et au client de calcul. L'un croit que tu as l'accélération de virtualisation (client BOINC) et l'autre n'arrive pas à activer l'accélération (Vbox), ce qui provoque la récupération de WU alors que ta machine ne devrait pas en avoir. Problème qui disparaît en installant à la main une VM Linux qui n'utilisera pas le wrapper vbox BOINC.



Ensuite, je te laisse proposer une expérience ou une observation pour réfuter l'hypothèse 2. Parce que très franchement, ça m'arrangerait BEAUCOUP que le problème vienne de mes WU, ça voudrait dire que je serais en capacité de régler ce problème ! Et tu te doutes bien que j'ai investigué. Le but c'est quand même que le plus possible de gens puissent nous aider à calculer ! Une solution que je pense avoir trouvé pour le moment c'est d'accepter les machines sans accélération de la virtualisation et c'est peut-être le choix des autres projets. L'autre solution que j'ai trouvé, c'est d'interdire certains modèles de CPU, pas top...

Tu viens dans un premier temps critiquer avec virulence (pour pas dire de façon impolie) le système de points et tu continues la discussion sur les plantages de tes WU, toujours avec un ton à la limite de l'acceptable. Que tu sois fondateur d'une team, que tu arrives à installer un disque dur sur Windows Vista, que tu sois le pape ou encore directeur-gérant d'une société de logement, ça ne te dispense pas d'un minimum de savoir vivre ! On obtient rarement une interaction positive avec ta façon de faire et tu es hors-sujet avec le fil de discussion. Je comprends bien que tu n'as pas l'habitude d'être trop contredit dans ta sphère professionnelle et c'est assez cocasse que tu me suggères un peu d'humilité. Tu me rappelles trois anecdotes, avec des chefs d'entreprises à chaque fois, qui ont voulu donner leur avis avec beaucoup d'assurance, accompagné de vives critiques sur des sujets qu'ils ne maîtrisaient pas, avec des avis préconçus sur les chercheurs. A chaque fois, ils se sont humiliés tout seul en public...

Je ne veux pas abuser des moyens de modération, alors ce sera mon dernier avertissement : tu formules des questions, des remarques, des suggestions, des réponses constructives dans un fil de discussion approprié. Merci !

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Jim1348

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Message 658 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 14:57:49 UTC - in response to Message 657.  

Sorry, my interlocutor does not seem to understand the details of what I am explaining in English. I will answer in French.

By the way, your English is very, very good. You have studied or worked over here somewhere.
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damotbe
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Message 659 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 15:19:27 UTC - in response to Message 658.  

By the way, your English is very, very good. You have studied or worked over here somewhere.


Thank you! However, I have a complex about my English. I don't consider myself comfortable enough with it, especially for oral communication...
We write scientific articles in English and we work with people all around the world. English is just the common language. Staying in an English-speaking country would have been a great cultural enrichment for sure.
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[VENETO] boboviz

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Message 661 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 17:13:56 UTC - in response to Message 656.  

But on Boinc from the first hours (past century) Look my ID on Boinc, look "the team" I am founder. 111th since creation
ofr BOINC.I think I have enough knownledge to configure hosts.

So long time on boinc and you are not able to quote a post correctly.
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marsinph

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Message 663 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 20:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 657.  

Hello,
Thank you for answer. English was also OK ( you could send in FR by private message !!!).
It prevent escalation and ping-pong effect.

You always says in most of replies there are no problem with your WU.
But in first part of this reply (in french), you write everyone have problem.

Then you mix scientific method and BIAS, with WU !!!

After , you suggest a problem about virualisation (and acceleration.. I agree if my host are not hardware able.....
But I let remember that all was perfect working (exept sometimes, WU who become stuck, it can happen. No problem, it is in beta phase).
But I still wait explanation why there are problems. For the same host, no any changes in config, why all worked perfect latest year, and since two mont, no more !

I appreciate your effort. it takes time. I know,
I am to help., as admin, you have full access to my host.
I have check once again all, to be sure, i am not doing wrong. It can happen.

Then I doscovered again a other problem.
I have only host 1764 (virtual Linux running on physical host 956. I have 2 only WU (110945 and 1109765). This situation on wed04mar 20:00UTC (WU received on 04mar 19:55:34 and 19:55:23)

But on my account page it seem I have also three more WU : 1109635, 1109640, 1109486) received 04mar 19:29...)
Info collected from a other host who not run QuChem). Where are those WU ??? Not at me.

Then about credits, on same host, usually, on host 1764) run in about 1hr-1hr30. All for 200 CR.
But the new , latest received WU are estimated to tun in about 12 hours. (I know it is not accurate)
I let it run

But It are your WU. Those two following seem to need 12 hours. We are very far away from what you predicted : about 200CR per hour
od9_athome_b3lyp-321gd,batch99,000993556,nwchem,1581785149_1
od9_athome_b3lyp-321gd,batch99,000998915,nwchem,1581785138_1
Then compare with
od9_athome_b3lyp-321gd,batch52,000521854,nwchem,1580756944_2 : running : three hours
or
od9_athome_b3lyp-321gd,batch60,000606303,nwchem,1580807016_3 : running 54 min
All for a CR of 200 !!!

Only to show that your CR system is strange. : running time 54 minutes or 3 hours : all the same CR !!!
I repeat, same host. Not forget all my host are in full basic config, Only OS and Boinc installed. Not used. So I can compare.


To conclude, I let finish the two very strange WU (12 hours estimated)
Then I return to all the other PRJ who needs your virtualization/accelaration. It works everywhere. Only here not .

So, you have enough information. If you want additional test, I will help you. But the by private message, so I can send my
private mail. More easy to send screenshot.

I NEVER, I repeat NEVER have make remarks about (against) scientist. I do not know from where you take this.
I agree sometimes, I can answer not "sweet". But I do after I receive answer where it show a not full reading

Then I make difference between "reply to post" and "new post in discusuion"
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marsinph

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Message 664 - Posted: 4 Mar 2020, 20:50:43 UTC - in response to Message 661.  

Mister, I suggest you read all very carefully the first line of each post !!!
I understand what you mean.
I make difference between "new message" and "reply or quote" .

This message is sent by "quote" You will see your serlf where it appears !
Like a new message

Best regards


But on Boinc from the first hours (past century) Look my ID on Boinc, look "the team" I am founder. 111th since creation
ofr BOINC.I think I have enough knownledge to configure hosts.

So long time on boinc and you are not able to quote a post correctly.
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Message 765 - Posted: 15 Apr 2020, 20:35:38 UTC

Hello,

I have a raspberry pi (proc A-53, arm v8 instructions) + sys raspbian (debian base) i'd like to use to participate to this very interesting project. Not a powerfull computer, but could be in use 24h/24h.
A way to recyle a non use raspberry... maybe others could do the same !

too bad, the project doesn't seem to be compatible with arm AArch64 instructions.
is any adaptation to this type of material planned in time ?

Maybe it's a realy big work for little benefits, but asking anyway.

thanks ! (and sorry for my english :-))

j'en profite pour passer un bonjour à la fac des sciences de l'université d'Angers, j'y suis passé comme élève il y a une dizaine d'année en filière biochimie : très bon souvenirs (cours, profs...).
bonne continuation à vous tous !
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damotbe
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Message 766 - Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 8:14:09 UTC - in response to Message 765.  

Hello Aurélien.

Currently, the code is not ARM compatible and to be honest, when we started the project we chose not to go down this path. As you say, the returns would be small for a lot of time invested. On the other hand, if someone manages to compile NWChem for ARM, the investment should be less substantial.

C'est très chouette d'avoir d'anciens étudiants qui calculent pour notre projet ! Merci à toi.
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Message 780 - Posted: 17 Apr 2020, 20:16:28 UTC - in response to Message 766.  

hello damotbe,

Thanks for your answer.

J'aurai bien aimé participer au projet, c'est une belle initiative. Mais mon PC de bureau en X86 souffle comme un sèche cheveu quand il tourne sous boinc, même en réduisant le temps d’utilisation processeur, d'ou la question sur la compatibilité ARM. Pour ce qui est de compiler sur architecture ARM pour aider, pareil, je n'y connais rien, c'est pas du tout ma partie... dommage, sinon j'aurai aidé avec plaisir. Mais bon, un de perdu, 10 de retrouvés comme on dit.

Bon courage à vous, et bonne continuation !
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